Katarzyna Pełczyńska-Nałęcz: Terms remain the same

Neither Poland nor the European Union change their politics regarding Lukashenka’s regime.

Deputy foreign minister Katarzyna Pełczyńska-Nałęcz said about it in an interview to editor-in-chief of charter97.org Natallia Radzina.

- Ms Minister, you have been the deputy foreign minister for a year and a half. The scope of your responsibility includes relations with Belarus. How do you see the situation in our country, and what is Poland’s current politics regarding Lukashenka’s regime?

- Poland’s position regarding Belarus remains the same because there have not been any significant changes in Belarus. We see that the economic situation is worsening, but this is the problem of the powers, while in the last three years the sphere of politics basically has not changed. For that reason the Polish politics doesn’t change.

Our politics has several components. First, close connection between the societies of Poland and Belarus is crucial. The Polish state does everything possible to give more visas to Belarusians. Last year we issued 350 thousand visas, while two years ago the number was 50 thousand less. The dynamics shows a positive trend, but unfortunately there is no consensus from the Belarusian part. More than half of Schengen visas that Belarusians get are Polish. Every second Belarusian enters the Schengen area with a Polish visa.

Second, we consider technical, cultural and regional cooperation among NGOs very important. We assist this cooperation and hope that it will develop.

Furthermore, Poland funds scholarships for Belarusian students who cannot study in Belarus due to political reasons. I mean the Kastus Kalinowski education program.

And the fourth component of our politics is the unbiased information communicated to the Belarusian society. We hope that the TV-channel Belsat and radio Racja making an impact here. They are the tool that allows us to provide Belarusians with information in the Belarusian language about what is actually happening in Belarus, Poland and the EU.

The website charter97.org works from Poland. Our ambition is to support all NGOs that work for a closer contact between the Polish and Belarusian societies. Poland is a democratic country open for its neighbors.

In fact, heads of state of Poland and Belarus have not met for several years, which shows some serious problems that do exist between our countries.

First of all, we in Poland believe that the elections in Belarus are not democratic and that there are political prisoners in the country.

- You are an expert on Russia, you were a member of the Polish-Russian commission on difficult issues, you even worked with the Russian issue in the Center of Eastern Research. How would you evaluate the processes that are taking place in today’s Russia around freedom of speech, civil society and opposition?

- In the recent months the situation in Russia has changed. Today the state controls NGOs in a more rigid way. And this opinion is shared by Poland and the entire European Union, which is reflected in official statements of Catherine Ashton and Štefan Füle.

We are convinced that Russia’s internal issues cannot be solved from outside; they are solely the responsibility of the Russian powers and people. But our Polish experience shows that the civil society is a very important part of modernization and development. A free civil society is a most powerful factor of innovation that assists a country’s development. This is our experience, but we believe that it can be useful for other countries. A harder control of NGOs in Russia will impede the modernization of the country. And it will become a problem for the Russian state and society to comprehend and solve.

- Today the Polish military are concerned with the joint training sessions of Belarusian and Russian armies held at the Russian airbase in Belarus. Is the Polish MFA concerned, too?

- Cooperation between Belarus and Russia in the defense sphere has been known for a while. The military cooperation between the countries is getting closer. We are aware of that and believe that this is a sovereign decision of these countries.

Russia’s presence in Belarus is no news either. Of course, Poland is watching these training sessions and the military cooperation between Belarus and Russia because this is an important factor of our security, but we don’t see it as a threat. However, it is crucial that the cooperation and the training sessions are as transparent as possible. If Poland, Belarus and Russia exchange relevant data, trust between the countries will grow stronger. Poland and Russia are discussing the matter. The training sessions and cooperation with Belarus are also a part of this discussion.

- After the events of December 19, 2010, and mass repressions in Belarus, the European Union took a rigid position regarding Lukashenka’s regime and demanded immediate release of the political prisoners. Nevertheless, while the political prisoners remain behind the bars, the EU is once again flirting with the dictator trying to resume another “dialog”. Few countries including Poland keep a firm position. Will you concede to the majority, or are you ready to fight for your principles?

- The politics of the European Union is a consensus of now 28 countries. These countries have very different approaches, understanding of the situation, and opinions. And it goes for Belarus as well as for the EU’s other neighbors and strategic partners. Poland’s interest in Belarus is strongest in the EU, while other states see Belarus as a distant country somewhere in the end of Europe (if in Europe at all). The interest is extremely weak.

Belarus is crucial for Poland, not only because it is our neighbor, but also because we have so much in common historically and culturally. Despite all our problems, our nations are very close. For us, Belarus is an important partner and we contribute to the EU’s politics regarding your country.

I don’t think that the EU’s politics regarding Belarus has seen some drastic changes in the recent years. Sanctions are still in force, terms are clear, I see no changes here. From time to time politicians in the EU discuss if emphases should be shifted, but it only concerns emphases, not the foundation of the politics. There are similar discussions about other countries.

- Sanctions have been lifted from foreign minister Uladzimir Makey who was one of the initiators of the nightmare of December 19, 2010. Is it a shifted emphasis?

- The sanctions have been temporarily lifted from the minister of foreign affairs, not from the person who is somehow responsible for the events of 2010. This is more an institutional than individual perspective. Despite all the problems, the European Union should maintain contact with the Belarusian powers, at least in order to communicate our terms to them. If the means for communication disappear, a dialog will not be feasible. From the constitutional perspective, the foreign minister is the principal contact for the EU. We don’t want to isolate Belarus; we want the political situation in the country to change towards democracy and European standards.

- We are very grateful to the Polish government for its support of independent media – website charter97.org, TV-channel Belsat, Radi Racja. Today they provide Belarus with alternative information. Can we count on your help in the future, given that the official powers in Belarus dislike it?

- Poland’s support of the contacts between the Polish and Belarusian societies is based on our belief that it is very important for our countries. This is the most crucial component of our politics, and we will not give it up despite the Belarusian powers’ opinion. This is a long positive process for Poles and Belarusians.

- The Kastus Kalinowski education program has proved to be a great support for the repressed Belarusians. But according to some sources, there are no funds for the post-graduate part of the program which will soon be shut down. Is it true?

- The Kastus Kalinowski education program till not be shut down. We hope that soon we’ll be able to shut the program down, but it will happen only when there’ll be no Belarusian students who cannot study in their country due to political reasons. But until there are such students, they can always count on Poland’s support. The possibility to get post-graduate education will remain.

This is not the only program that open Polish higher education establishments for Belarusian students. This year a new program of Stefan Banach will be launched not only for Belarusians, but for residents of the countries of the Eastern Partnership. The program will be for the best students of departments of law, mathematics and engineering who want to study in Poland.

- There are few female ministers in the world. But you are both a minister and author of several books, and the most important – the mother of three children. Could you share your secret, how do you do that?

- I can’t do everything, I just try to, first of all, do the most important things and do them as well as possible. The rest can wait. It is crucial to set priorities right – in family and politics, to separate things that really matter from trifles and needless tasks that are often very time-consuming.

- So what is more important: family or career?

- I have no answer to this question because both these things are very important. They belong to different dimensions, and it is impossible to pick one.