19 March 2024, Tuesday, 11:11
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Maksim Muzyka: There’ll be a guerilla war, we will shoot from every window

Maksim Muzyka: There’ll be a guerilla war, we will shoot from every window

Everyone is responsible for what is going on in the country.

Maksim Muzyka is a volunteer, entrepreneur, awarded practitioner of martial arts, one of the public leaders of the Maidan. When the peaceful rallies in Kyiv were violently broken up, Maksim organized survival courses. He was a member of the investigation group of the Main Investigation Control of Ukraine in Savur-Mogila, one of the hot spots of Eastern Ukraine. Maksim has frequently been to the Donetsk airport.

“It was my decision to go there. I’m already 35, I have two children. It’s better if I go instead of those 18-year old virgin boys”, Maksim Muzyka said in an interview to editor-in-chief of charter97.org Natallia Radina.

- Maksim, let’s start with the Maidan. Kyiv celebrates its anniversary. Ukraine has set new standards of protest rallies. You were one of the first to say that even journalists shouldn’t go to rallies alone, and one of the first to offer self-defense courses. However, have you kept to the principles of non-violent resistance?

- Non-violent resistance and safety are not mutually exclusive. For me, it is very provoking when a person opens up for a hit. Why? Well, sorry but you have provoked the bully and ended up beaten. You went there alone, waving a flag. Sorry but you’ve got what you’ve wanted. This picture was widely promoted, it was repelling. However, it is not safe.

When we talk about the students that were the first to be assaulted at the Maidan, I ask a number of questions: Who was supposed to protect them? Who called off their guard? Who allowed this to happen? Why wasn’t anyone protecting them? Why didn’t anyone take care of their safety? Why? With what purpose? Did they try to be provocative? Was it negligence or naivety? I don’t know.

Many things happen because people don’t think about or don’t care about basic safety rules. I have always said: “Don’t go alone, find someone who’d go with you, have an eye on each other.” When people started to move in Grushevski street my partner was with me, and he kept close to me all the time. He followed after me when I went to the toilette, I followed after him when he did the same. I went forward when he went forward, I went back when he went back. You work together. If you fall, he picks you up and drag away. If he’s hurt you help him. This is the right way to do it. If you are alone, get hurt and fall down, people will stumble you to death.

With these rules, you have fewer victims and higher organizational level. The same goes for war: you should work with a partner. He knows where your emergency kit is, you know where he keeps his. Each of you has a list of phone numbers to the family of the other, just in case…

- Self-defense courses seem to be the most popular sports in Ukraine.

- Military training is very popular. People are taking courses in infantry, intelligence, counter-intelligence, ambush, and guerilla. I believe that this is a more effective activity than drinking vodka, no matter if there will be war or if they’ll reach Kyiv.

- In the past, when you were a professional athlete, did you have partners from Russia? How has the war affected your relationship?

- Psychologically, it is very hard. I used to travel to Saint Petersburg every two months to meet with my friends and practice. When it all began, I asked them not to speak about politics. Now we don’t talk at all. It’s not that we’ve had an argument… Once a friend of mine wrote to me: “What is this? Why is it happening? Where does this outbreak of fascism and nationalism come from?” I replied: “You know nothing, Kostia. Let’s not go there. I really can’t do it right now.”

While many people see everything through the lens of a TV-set, we know that all the television has is lies.

- You have been in the ATO zone several times, you have taken part in one of the most difficult fights of this war on Savur-Mogila. How did you end up there?

- I volunteered. A new intelligence division was opened at the Main Investigation Control. In the beginning, there were 42 volunteers on the list, but in the end we were 12. Of this group, 7 went straight to the conflict zone with our curator. They didn’t even complete the training. When we enrolled, they told us that we’d work at the headquarters and have time to learn about the war operation. As a result, we spent a couple of days at the headquarters, and then went to fight. There were too few soldiers, and we needed to siege Savur-Mogila.

- Why were special force units sent to the siege? Isn’t it a work for storm troops?

Everyone got to fight. As one of our colonels said, ”Any commander of a brigade hangs up at once when he hears about storm troops.” The pressure was great. When I was at the headquarters, I could hear Muzhenko (ed. note: head of the headquarters) “talking” to them… After that, they told the media that Savur-Mogila had been taken five days before it actually was taken. In other words, the 51st battalion, a part of the 51st brigade, was thrown to Savur-Mogila. When I say brigade, I mean a battalion; when I say battalion, I mean squadron; when I say squadron, I hope that there is a platoon. Nothing is complete.

So, after these guys were thrown to Savur-Mogila, they were immediately thrown back by artillery. However, the commanding told the media that Savur-Mogila had been taken. After that, the headquarters were exposed to a great pressure, since the commanding had already announced the success. That’s why they sent everyone they had. The 51st brigade, 25th air brigade, 3rd special forces platoon, the flamethrowing division of the 72nd brigade and our group of 7 handicaps - all took part in the siege. Later, six more joined our little group. A dirty dozen.

- Handicaps?

- We were completely unprepared, we just got the guns. My partner was wounded, but he is nobody without any status. In fact, it is convenient. Why is it convenient to use “The Right Sector” for any purpose? One colonel told me once: “Could you ask for more men? You’re on good terms with the commandment.” How could anyone send under-armed, underdressed children to the war? Nevertheless, the headquarters’ message was clear: we need to take the height, but we have no men.

We did take it. First tanks and artillery did their job, and then we stormed. I was lucky, my division had a different goal: to take a lower building. It was empty. I cannot say that it was a difficult task. We went in, threw in grenades, and having made sure that the house was empty, we kept the height under the fire.

- Did Suar-Mogila become a little version of Monte Cassino?

- Historians can compare it to whatever they want, I have no frame of reference. I spent two more nights there after the siege. They forgot to shift us. A day and a half was a long and hard time to wait because the mortar never stopped shooting. I think it was a Vasiliok that throws three shots at once. When a mine explodes three meters from you, it makes you uncomfortable. Then you get used to it. People get used to everything…

- Could you evaluate the condition of the Ukrainian army from the inside?

- It is very poor, really. Just bad. Have you seen photos?

- And who is to blame?

- Nobody in particular. Not only the government, but also every person who was sleeping during these years, including myself, are to blame for the degradation of the army in the past two decades. How can I claim not responsible and say that it’s the fault of defense ministers? It is irresponsible.

Everyone has to take their share of responsibility. You gave your vote to these people, you didn’t care, you bought this scrap metal, you didn’t prepare your children, you didn’t practice…

Had we known that the war was coming, we’d be fully armored and prepared by now, with a trench dug between Ukraine and Russia.

- If the war conflict intensifies, who will fight from the Ukrainian side?

- Many people will go to the war, but this is not the issue. You cannot solve the conflict with war. We can be cocky, but we have too little resources to win against Russia.

One thing is certain, we will never let Russia occupy Ukraine. In this case, there’ll be a guerilla war, shooting from behind every corner, slicing foes every night, placing counterfeit poisonous vodka. We’ll find ways to destroy them, this is not an issue.

They will never be able to maintain an occupation, they lack resources. But we cannot get our land back right now. How many hours will we last if Putin involves aviation? Let’s be realistic.

- Strangely enough, the economic relations between Russia and Ukraine have not ceased. Belarusian petroleum products from Russian (Sechin’s) oil still come to Ukraine. Basically, the Ukrainian army is tanked with Belarusian fuel.

- Have a look at the economic map of the USSR, the one that we all studied at school: our economies are closely connected. We are tied by pipelines with running oil, gas, ammonia, water.

We all depend on each other, which is why neither they nor we cut these ties. We don’t explode these pipelines, even though it’s so easy to stop fuel supplies to Russia’s chemical industry. The question is why aren’t you doing this? Why would you rather shoot than create an economic blockade?

- Is it a question to the Ukrainian powers?

- Yes, it is. The question is what do people to hear. I’m not talking about conspiracy theories, we can discuss who benefits from this, who is ruling the country today, who earns the money. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that the people are getting more active, they are waking up and realizing that they can do something against the powers’ will.

What are these people doing today? Some are fighting, others provide them with clothing and food, and we pay the bill. This group of people has finally found their niche – funneling th energy to the war and its consequences. As for the oligarchs, nothing has changed for them. Reforms, you say? No! Any changes? No!

- There is however a hope that the new Supreme Rada will improve the situation in the country. What plans do you have for the future?

- There are projects that are crucial today, but that the state ignores. I mean the rehabilitation of the people who come back from the front line and need to re-socialize and return to the employment market.

“Give us job!” they ask. There is no job in this economy! I have a team, and together we have launched an incubator for social and business projects where such people can participate. The only problem is the money.

As for the politics, we should act through these projects. We need people who can create a business with 10 000 workplaces.

I have received invitations from several political movements where I can make a difference. The situation intensifies, there is no possibility to use old traditional ways. The demand for new approaches and structures is growing fast.

- You make an impression of a harmonious person. In your opinion, are volunteers disappointed and exhausted? Or is there a wave of new passionate people?

- Every wave has its rises and falls. Volunteers are human, too. They get disappointed, exhausted, they lose faith. Many ask themselves: how should I go on with my life? I became a volunteer, but before that I had been a businessman. What should I do now? Should I quit or should I get paid from the volunteer organization’s funds? It is a dilemma, and many of the volunteers that I have talked to are tired of their mission. There is a thin line between a voluntary task and a paid job, and people feel it.

We have idealized the volunteer movement. Before the elections, there was an attempt to create a kind of a volunteer party, some people felt as if they were saviors of the nation. I said: guys, let’s be honest, you are just middlemen. People trusted you with their money, you bought the necessary stuff and delivered it to the front. It would never happen without the donors who were not afraid to give money to strangers! You simply made it easier for these people to realize their right to help. Then you multiplied this help and became wholesale stocks. That’s it, nothing more. I didn’t see any point in Poroshenko awarding volunteers “for their service”.

- For these people, you are their leader, a legendary personality, and they expect you to come up with suggestions and models.

- I am trying to get involved in different campaigns because I have experienced how powerful it is to be sincere. But I can make mistakes, and I do have disappointments. Sometimes I read under Facebook updates: “Maks, people are watching, pull yourself together!” I do understand it, but everyone goes through their ups and downs. I can see my only contribution in the growth of the volunteer movement with a dozen of new members that have come there because of me, and each of them has done 20 times more than me. I haven’t collected millions. I delivered what other people had bought.

- In your opinion, how will the events develop?

- Honestly, nobody knows. What does our eastern neighbor want? On the one hand, it is clear that they need a terrestrial path to Crimea, because otherwise they cannot deliver goods. It is unclear how they will try to achieve this goal. Maybe, it is possible to reach an agreement and allow transit of the goods, let them feed Crimea. Maybe, political decisions will be more effective and we will establish checkpoints. Western countries are more likely to reach an agreement with Russia than Ukraine.

Many people ask why we still don’t have martial law in the country. However, to announce martial law is to acknowledge that we do not intend to pay our debts because we are at war. It is obvious that without assistance from outside we will lose this war. We are a little country, robbed of everything.

We will not give up, we will resist, we will set up guerilla fight, but we cannot win without help.

Moreover, martial law changes the power structure. The chief commander will get the entire power, but is he ready to handle this power? I am not sure.

- In this complicated situation, the Ukrainian powers seek allies wherever possible. They even have positive expectations from the neighbor dictator Lukashenka. What do you think of these plans?

- I cannot see Lukashenka as an ally. I judge by his character among other things. Maybe, these statements are some kind of a game to undermine the relations between Belarus and Russia, to re-direct resistance.

- It is impossible.

- I agree. These statements don’t mean a thing. Lukashenka can take off his shoe and bang on a desk, but it will not change anything.

- You criticize oligarchs. What is your impression, have they changed their opinion about the situation?

- It’s not that some oligarch has changed from being a coward to becoming a protector of Ukraine. No one of the people who yesterday were too afraid to say a word to Yanukovich have suddenly joined the Maidan movement.

I know many middle class businessmen. There are people among volunteers who drive a Porsche Cayenne, but they spend days in hospitals and they purchase medicines with their own money. They run their business – a store chain or web shops, they help the army and volunteers.

I cannot say how one can influence an oligarch. Recently I have talked to vice governor of the Dnepropetrovsk region, deputy of the Supreme Rada Boris Folatov. I can call him a friend. I do realize what the way to the power can imply, but today these people do good things, for Ukraine’s sake.

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